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Summary
In this episode of HR2Go, Karen Arnold is joined by Christine Fedoulis from Superior Recruitment to explore the decisions employers make before, during and after hiring that can shape who they attract and whether new employees stay.
From defining and future-proofing the role to candidate expectations, flexibility, structured interviews, employment contracts, onboarding and retention, the conversation looks at how recruitment and HR connect across the employment lifecycle.
You’ll learn:
- Why a vacancy is an opportunity to review and redefine the role before going to market
- How candidate experience, flexibility and communication influence attraction and employer brand
- What candidates are looking for now, including salary, stability, career development and AI learning opportunities
- Why structured interviews and benchmarking matter more than gut feel alone
- How offer timing, employment contracts and salary expectations can affect whether a preferred candidate accepts
- Why onboarding, early check-ins and clear communication can support stronger retention
Transcript note: This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability while keeping the conversation close to the original recording.
Transcript
Introduction: Finding the Right People and Keeping Them
Karen Arnold: Welcome to HR2Go by Effective Workplace Solutions. In this episode of HR2Go, we'll be chatting about one of the biggest challenges facing businesses at the moment, and that is finding the right people and just as importantly, retaining them. From my perspective, recruitment is often viewed as a process of filling a vacancy, but in reality, it starts much earlier. It starts with understanding the role, knowing what success looks like and getting the employment arrangements right, and setting the clear expectations from the outset. Joining me today is Christine Fedoulis from Superior Recruitment. Christine has nearly 20 years experience in recruitment and delivers high calibre talent attraction, sourcing and recruitment for permanent staff for businesses of all sizes. So I'm really looking forward to getting her perspective on this topic today. Christine, welcome.
Christine Fedoulis: Thank you for the very warm introduction, Karen. It's my pleasure to be a part of your podcast today.
Karen Arnold: Before we dive into today's topic, did you want to tell everyone a little bit about yourself and the work you do?
Christine Fedoulis: Absolutely, so I come from almost 20 years of corporate and commercial recruitment experience Australia-wide. I started my career in Sydney with a large global firm. I started off in temp recruitment, which is a fantastic place to immerse yourself and learn all the ins and outs of recruitment. Across my career, I have recruited for a range of different positions. I now specialise in business operations, accounting and HR for corporate and commercial sectors across a very diverse industry sector.
Karen Arnold: Brilliant, so definitely well-versed in the world of recruitment.
Christine Fedoulis: Absolutely.
Karen Arnold: As I said before, in my opinion, recruitment starts long before actually advertising the position, and I imagine you would agree, Christine.
Define the Role Before You Recruit
Karen Arnold: Off the back of that, what do you wish employers had clearer in their minds and certainly on paper before they came to you with a vacancy?
Christine Fedoulis: Really good question, very loaded question. So from a recruitment perspective, what I'm really looking for and assessing when I start talking about a job vacancy with an employer is the job brief, the position description, is it really clear? And does it really show you who you're looking for now? So if you've recruited for a role three years ago, what's changed in the organisation? What's changed in the team? What's changed in the role itself? It's an opportunity to really do a deep dive and make sure that the person that you're looking for really matches the role type today, but more importantly, to be able to do some forward thinking as well. So really clear job descriptions, really clear on, is it a full-time position? Is it a part-time position? Is it casual? What are the specific skills, experience, systems that you're looking for? And yeah, I think that that structure and that clarity at the outset is so important, but often it's overlooked and particularly by smaller businesses, I would say. Really, the job descriptions just often don't match who they're actually looking for and what the job actually entails.
Karen Arnold: Gosh, you've actually highlighted something really interesting there. And I was talking about this a couple of weeks ago, that every exit from the business is an opportunity to have a look at your business as a whole. And I think a lot of employers rush, as you said, to fill the vacancy they just had created rather than pausing and going, what elements of that role were working really well? What elements could be absorbed somewhere else? Is this an opportunity to redefine that role? Was there some skillset or gaps missing from our previous incumbent? It is such an amazing opportunity to do a reset. And as you said, just make sure that the position description fits what they need right now, that even the title, I imagine, of the role actually reflects the type of position and person that you're looking for.
Christine Fedoulis: You've really summarised it quite well, Karen. And I mean, that's just obviously a start. There are obviously some other factors that I'm sure we'll probably get into. But yeah, I think that is the number one most important thing.
Karen Arnold: Yeah, excellent. At the outset, at least. So you've just talked about, I guess, what maybe I'd call is perhaps a poor job brief, you know, someone coming to you a little undercooked. How much does that affect the quality of the candidates that you get?
Christine Fedoulis: It's huge. It's absolutely huge. Because I think what's really important for employers to realise is that it is a branding exercise that can really help or hinder your branding, but also in terms of that attraction piece. So from my background in particular, and the way that I'm recruiting is that I am doing candidate searches, as well as obviously advertising. Now, if I'm not clear on who the client and the business are looking for, how can I go to market and be really clear and identify the suitable candidates and the skills and the fit if it's not clear? So it's absolutely crucial. And it also, if the job brief isn't clear, it's a wasted exercise and not a great use of time because we can often get right through to the interview process, and then it might be a light bulb moment for the client. So we'll actually know, I think we do need to actually change the job brief. But then it's a whole, in terms of time and resources, I'm then having to go to market again for a second time. So yeah, absolutely, it really is important. And look, it absolutely can be refined in the process, but earlier on in the process would be much more ideal rather than we're getting to the second interview stage.
Karen Arnold: You touched on branding exercise. Are you talking about the fact that I guess you're putting your business out there and the experience that the candidates have through that recruitment process is where you're coming from, from a branding perspective?
Christine Fedoulis: Absolutely, and also from an employer value proposition perspective as well. And I think the other thing that's really important is that the branding and the employee value proposition is really a whole company exercise. It doesn't just sit with HR. Yeah. Often, yes, HR are, I would say 95% of the time involved in the interviewing. Line managers really need to understand as well and perhaps maybe be coached and educated on what best practice is for the recruiting process to ensure that whether the candidate is offered the position or not, that they're left with a positive experience. So with regards to the recruitment process, whatever stage they get to, and that's something that I think it's a really missed opportunity for employers when they just don't seem to understand that how obviously the communication throughout the whole process is really the candidates are assessing, not just from a glossy website, but what information, how am I being treated? How am I left feeling about the organisation and this potential job opportunity? So absolutely, I think it's really important.
Christine Fedoulis: It's just often, it's not a recognised piece. And again, particularly by smaller businesses, I don't think they quite understand that it's an opportunity to really portray their business and what's great about them in a good light through that whole staff hire process.
Karen Arnold: Yeah, it's an interesting point you make. And obviously from a HR perspective, we see it and we know that it's important, but I think it probably isn't thought about from a business perspective or as a from a business whole perspective. These are still potentially customers. They are going to talk about that experience. And if we can create a positive experience, even for those who aren't successful, they're potentially brand ambassadors for us if we've made a really good impression, they are going to go away thinking that that's a pretty amazing company or business. And even if I don't work for them, I might want to be a customer. I'm going to refer someone else to them for the next position that's available.
Christine Fedoulis: Yeah, massive missed opportunity. Really, I actually have an example. So I had a candidate come to me and said, I had a really, really interesting interview for, I think it was like a financial controller level role. This was a couple of years ago. And he was like, look, I unfortunately am not who they're looking for, but he became a brand ambassador for the organisation and assisted them to find the right person through his own networks because he thought they were a great company. He was gutted obviously that he wasn't the right person, but absolutely, it's just such a great opportunity, but just a missed opportunity.
Candidate Experience, Employer Brand and a Tight Labour Market
Karen Arnold: Look, I think it just harks back to that idea that you treat the cleaner the same way you treat the CEO or, and we have to, every interaction that we're having in business really should be a positive one. And even if it is for candidates for a role, yeah. So what would you say makes a role easier to recruit for and what would make it harder?
Christine Fedoulis: Good question. Easier to recruit for is the client is really ready to actually engage with the process and they've thought out the actual timeline. So there's structure, there's structure, there's clarity and there's transparency. I will also say in this particular job market that we find ourselves in as well, the employers that are also open to adapting the position in terms of offering perhaps hybrid work, some form of remote work or flexibility, the employers that are seen as more attractive and they're able to actually attract more candidates, but also higher calibre candidates as well. So I would say that it's not always possible for every single role type, but there is an opportunity for some employers to look at, well, we've got a full-time position, could this person in reality work one day from home? And will that allow us to attract more suitable candidates? Because I'm having the conversation with candidates day in, day out and that flexibility piece, that work-life balance as a requirement, I don't know if we would truly get work-life balance, but absolutely, I would say that that definitely assists employers when they're going out to market.
Karen Arnold: Yeah, and then I imagine the harder roles are those ones that are not clear, very rigid, don't have that flexibility, which means their talent pool is a lot smaller.
Christine Fedoulis: Absolutely, it's a lot harder if it's that rigid, I think that rigid thinking that is really, yeah, that makes it a hard to fill role at times.
Karen Arnold: I think too, flexibility doesn't have to look the same for everyone. Flexibility, if you can't offer work from home, can you offer a more condensed working week? I think it's about being creative and not, I guess not discounting a candidate that could be quite amazing for your business because you're not willing to think outside the square.
Christine Fedoulis: Absolutely, you've hit a really important point, that creativity and thinking about how can we actually engage this great candidate, or as we call them in recruitment, that unicorn candidate. When you find that high calibre candidate, that person that's a great fit, can they do that condensed working week, four days, 38 hours over four days, or is there the option for this person to start early, finish earlier, or with working parents as well, to be able to pick the kids up from school and then be able to log on and finish the work that they need to in the evening? I mean, if the productivity is there and the quality of work is there, what's the issue?
Karen Arnold: Yeah, and it's interesting, we just had, so we do internal professional development every fortnight, and the case we were unpacking this week was a work from home or a flexible work request case. And whilst this ended up in front of the commission, so obviously they've had a hand in deciding it, the outcome for this particular employee was that she did need to go into the office once a fortnight for connection and professional development, those sorts of things. But she was able to arrive at the office at 10.30 in the morning, which allowed her to drop kids off. And she did have to work through till five, but she could make up that hour and a half or so that she's missed working that day, make it up throughout the rest of the fortnight by just working half an hour here or there as and when needed to make up those hours. So I think there's lots of different ways to deliver that flexibility. But I suppose the key is being willing and open to that so you don't miss out on good quality talent.
Christine Fedoulis: Yeah, it's willing and open. And look, I think a part of my role in recruitment and I'm sure within HR is that educational piece and really educating our clients as to what we're seeing in the market. And it's not about a trend, it's about practicality.
Karen Arnold: Which actually is a beautiful segue into what was going to be my next topic around that candidate expectations changing. And I think we've all experienced it.
Karen Arnold: The employment market has changed and that's just the reality and it's changed quite significantly over the last few years. So what are you seeing candidates ask for now that perhaps they weren't asking you for five years ago?
Christine Fedoulis: Yeah, I really thought about this. I think the biggest thing for candidates that are looking in the job market now is it's really on par with salary absolutely needs to match the market value and the skills and the expertise. But also in terms of what we've just obviously touched upon is the flexibility, work-life balance, the opportunity to be able to do some hybrid work as well. And then also obviously job stability is obviously key as well. So I'm having really in-depth conversations with candidates now when they're asking, well, why are they looking on a fixed-term contract basis if someone's been in a permanent position? But also the other thing as well is that career growth and development is still there and it's something that's carried through as well. So look, it would really depend on the age and the skill level of the candidate but I would say absolutely the salary and the work-life balance piece is probably on par with the number one. And then, yeah, looking at the job stability of the company as well. And candidates doing a lot more research about what's happening in that industry sector, what's happening with that specific employer if they're larger and you can find information. But then also that career growth development as well, depending on what stage of career you're at as well, it's not a nice-to-have. It's really quite, you know, it's highly desired.
Karen Arnold: Yeah, so look, you probably almost then answered my next question which was going to be, they can't have everything. And we're hearing salary, we're hearing career progression, flexibility, hybrid work. And so my next question was going to be, you know, off the basis of you can't have everything at once for most of us, what would tend to influence their decision most? But you probably, you know, almost inadvertently answered that by talking about, well, one obviously depends on the individual, but where they're at in their career, you know, whether they've got children or caring responsibilities is probably going to influence that desire for flexible work arrangements, those sorts of things. Is there anything else there that you think sort of influences what makes something more important than say another, a wishlist item?
Christine Fedoulis: What I have noticed particularly in the last, I would say 12 to 18 months is the opportunity to learn about AI within a job opportunity. And I will say it's absolutely becoming more prevalent in accounting and finance roles. I'm also seeing more of that within HR roles as well. You know, how can we do more, become more efficient, you know, with regards to analytics and reporting as well. So that is definitely an emerging topic and I'm sure we'll probably see more of that as well. But in terms of the employers that can actually provide some learning opportunities, but then also there are some obvious issues with that as well in terms of AI use and confidentiality too. But absolutely, I think that AI literacy, the ability to be able to test and utilise and learn those AI skills is becoming more prevalent.
What Makes a Candidate Choose One Employer Over Another?
Karen Arnold: Yeah, interesting. Look, I think we've touched on it's pretty tight labour market out there. It's pretty competitive and, you know, particularly the region that we sit in that sort of Southern Gold Coast region, you know, I guess Southeast Queensland, it is a tight labour market. So I guess for the listeners out there, I think they'd be interested in what makes one candidate choose an employer over another. You know, what are the things that they're looking for in that space? Because I guess understanding that allows us to be more competitive in terms of being an employer. Absolutely. And I suppose we've already touched upon some of these, but it would be really nice to, I guess, be able to summarize for employers what makes them more attractive. You know, if a candidate is interviewing for two different positions, what's the deciding factor or the pull factor for them to choose one employer over the other?
Christine Fedoulis: I would say it's a combination of, you know, having employers that are really clear on, you know, what the role is, why they're recruiting, who they're looking for, being able to move through the recruitment process and, you know, not necessarily make it seamless, but it flows and it flows in real time. You know, you've got, you know, transparent communication. There's a, I guess, a timeline in terms of, you know, when first interviews will occur. You know, if the second interview is going to happen, when that will happen. But also in terms of the job offer, the timing of the job offer as well, that's really critical. So, you know, if you've done final round interviews and reference checks have been performed, that job offer really needs to come within 24 to 48 hours maximum. Yeah. I mean, if an employer is going to take longer than that, the candidate is, the likelihood is that they're interviewing with, you know, multiple potential employers, but it just opens you up to the risk to candidates start to sort of second guess or question or just, it's never good to rush a process, but when you leave, you know, your ideal candidate to be questioning what's happening or do I really want the role? That sometimes, and that's the reason why employers lose out on their ideal candidate is because of the timing. Yeah. The timing of the flow of the whole process. You know, it really does matter. And it's not the case of recruiters being pushy just for the sake of trying to finalise the placement. It's because we're having those conversations with the candidates and your ideal, you know, candidates, and the timing is really critical.
Karen Arnold: Yeah, absolutely. And I suppose too, we see issues with employment contracts not being issued promptly or even the goalposts changing at that point. So I think, you know, making sure if you are employing that, you know, when you're getting to that pointy end that you've already started thinking about the employment contract, it's already drafted, you're making sure that what's been discussed throughout the recruitment and interview process is actually reflected in the contract, that there's not, you know, something that's been omitted or another term that's been added that perhaps wasn't discussed. Because I imagine, you know, for you as a recruiter, trying to pull that back, you know, once that contract's gone out, there's a fair amount of trust that's potentially lost when it doesn't reflect what was discussed initially.
Christine Fedoulis: No, absolutely. And, you know, I would, for the smaller employers that don't have a designated HR function or HR manager, it's a question that I'm actually asking earlier on in the piece as well, just checking, do you have up-to-date employment contracts? Because it takes time as well. And they've got outdated employment contracts and awards need to be looked at as well. It's something that can unnecessarily delay the process and it means that it all basically falls apart at the end. The other thing I will say as well is salary negotiation shouldn't happen at the offer stage. Yeah. It needs to be done throughout the process. So that's another big one too, where I've seen candidates decide to go with another employer because there's consistency with regards to their salary expectation and what the employer is looking to pay for that position as well. So they're probably the two big ones.
Employment Contracts, Salary Expectations and Role Clarity
Karen Arnold: Yeah. And look, I think you've touched on something there that I guess we see, you know, because our roles do overlap, HR and recruitment. And I think it's that misaligned expectations during that recruitment process that often then flows into being performance or retention issues down the track. So I think that clarity and transparency right the way through is so critical. And it's where recruitment partners like yourself can be so valuable because you are that connection between the business and the candidate and ensuring that, you know, the whole way through, everyone's on the same page.
Christine Fedoulis: Yeah, there's a lot of conversations that, you know, our clients may not see, but detail matters. It matters a lot.
Karen Arnold: Absolutely. And look, often by the time we're called in, you know, an issue is being described as a performance issue. So, you know, let's fast forward two or three months. But when you actually trace that back, it's often a recruitment or onboarding issue. You know, it was a poorly defined role. So someone's not doing what the employer thinks they're engaged to do because their position description doesn't reflect that, you know, wrong employment arrangements. So, you know, all of a sudden, we've got someone working far more hours than they actually thought they were being recruited for. Perhaps they haven't been onboarded properly. So they're not following processes and procedures, but it's because they didn't get that information and probation's not being managed. So, you know, I think the thread that we're hearing over and over again through this conversation we're having is that need for clarity and really strong communication.
Christine Fedoulis: Absolutely.
Structured Interviews: Why Gut Feel Is Not Enough
Karen Arnold: So in your experience, what would you say the red flags are that perhaps employers ignore during recruitment? Do you think there's certain things that, you know, maybe they should be looking at a little more closely and perhaps just because they really need that position filled, it will maybe bypass or ignore?
Christine Fedoulis: Yeah, look, I think interviews that are unstructured, that don't have benchmarking are a real red flag because I think it's important for me to obviously get that feedback to be able for comparison between candidates because often I'm putting forward three or four candidates per position. Yeah. Another red flag would probably be employers that can't articulate what onboarding and training look like. Yeah. So I'm asking the question and it's glossed over. Or during the interview process, if a candidate is asking that question and their feedback to me is, I'm not really quite sure that the onboarding and the training or ongoing training and development is clear. It doesn't really sound well thought out. Yeah. So it's a red flag. And obviously, as you and I know, there are, you know, a lot of issues that stem from the onboarding piece done poorly and lack of, you know, training in the first few weeks of a position. So, I would probably say that they're the two biggest red flags from my perspective that I would see.
Karen Arnold: So, I guess for employers who are listening today, those takeaways are, you know, making sure you've got a structured interview process. And Christine, I mean, you're absolutely bang on. How can you compare candidates if you've asked completely different questions, if you've talked about completely different scenarios, you're not able to compare the candidates if they're not being, I guess, run through the same process or measured against the same parameters. So, as I said, for the employers listening, it's making sure you have got a structured interview process.
Karen Arnold: Would you even suggest that the same people should be interviewing the candidates so that you've got the same?
Christine Fedoulis: Absolutely. So, yeah, having the same people as the interviewers, but also ensuring that you are including key people in that interview process as well. So, ideally you have, you know, HR and you have a line manager, but also there's an opportunity in the second interview, for instance, to actually have, you know, a key team member that this person will work with as well. It's really important to make sure, but I suppose there's that consistency. And the biggest issue with interviews is that it's hard to actually get availability. And so, that's having consistency there then. But absolutely, the benchmarking, I think, you know, going with your gut feeling sounds all great, but the issue is if you can't articulate why you're actually, you know, progressing with one candidate over another and it's based on gut feel alone, there's all sorts of problems that can stem from that. Then when you, you know, engage the candidate, they don't work out. Well, because you can't just, you know, base your hiring decisions on gut feel alone.
Karen Arnold: Yeah, agreed, agreed. And if we want to talk about issues with not being able to justify why you recruited one over another, we've also got discriminatory issues and all the rest of it. So, it opens a whole can of worms. So, absolutely having that structured interview process, you know, ideally same interview panel. And then secondly, actually knowing what that first 90 days is going to look like and being able to clearly articulate that to your candidate. So, I think they're two really great takeaways for employers that you could absolutely go and implement without too much issue or hassle and improve that recruitment process or experience within your business.
Onboarding and the First 90 Days
Karen Arnold: Absolutely, yeah. And look, I suppose then, you know, we're now at that point in, so we've gotten to the point of offering a job. If we're thinking about the recruitment cycle, we know it doesn't finish when we offer them the contract. In fact, that's actually when the real work probably starts. So, can you tell me a little bit about what your touch points look like, I guess, after you onboard someone? Because even for our listeners who are not perhaps going to use a recruitment specialist like yourself, it still does highlight the touch points that really should be happening within that first sort of 90 days for any new starter.
Christine Fedoulis: Absolutely. So, in recruitment, we call it post-placement follow-up. So, when we know that there's a new candidate that is commencing in a role, I will usually reach out to that person a few days before just to make sure that they're still good to start. I'll also reach out to the employer as well and, you know, make sure that all of the IT is set up so that that person can be welcomed and it's orderly or as orderly as it can be. First day check-in, it's really just, you know, it's a really simple thing for me. It's often just a, you know, a text during the day or towards the end of the day. The first week, obviously, keeping it, you know, and this is with the candidate and with the client, the employer as well, that first check-in. The post-placement feedback is not just a tick box exercise. It's really important that if a recruiter is sharing that information or if a hiring manager is sharing that information, it's, you know, it's an opportunity to improve a process, improve the onboarding. The checks that I have, obviously, within my business is, you know, that first week, the second week, at the end of the first month and then towards the end of the 12 weeks. Obviously, if the probation period is longer, there will be further checkpoints as well, but it's absolutely not a tick box exercise. It's a case of candidates, because I've already generated that relationship with them, may just disclose one thing and I'll always ask them, are you comfortable for me to go to the employer, you know, go to your line manager or go to HR and just let them know that you're not actually getting this, because meeting the expectations is really crucial, you know, and look, candidates will always base it on their previous experience, you know, you know, when they've started a new job as well, like what is that experience? What does it look like? But, you know, making sure that that person has, you know, a workplace buddy as well, someone that they can go to. Yeah, I mean, look, they're obviously the things that I would be doing within, you know, the post placement, and I'm sure from a HR perspective, there's probably numerous checkpoints as well, within the first 90 days, but I guess as a guide, that would be some of the key things that I would be doing.
Karen Arnold: Yeah, and look, I love that, because, you know, really for an employer, there should be an email going out a day or two, depending on how tight, you know, or how quickly your onboarding process is, you know, between, I guess I'm talking about the time between offer and when they actually start, but there should be an email going out a couple of days before welcoming them, telling them what to expect on their first day, where they should be coming to, you know, who they need to report to, maybe even how they get into the building, if they're arriving perhaps before the workplace opens their doors, what to expect on their first day, there absolutely then should be some communication on their first day, hopefully they're being welcomed in. And then yeah, from a look, from a HR perspective, we would absolutely be saying that check in at the end of the first week, check in at the end of the second week, I mean, ideally, there's touch points the whole way along, but certainly, you know, a more structured check in at the end of the first week, one at the end of the second week, and then as you've highlighted, within sort of at the end of the first month, and then certainly before the end of probation. And those touch points allow us to identify any issues early and have conversations early. They allow us to fix things to perhaps modify things if something's not working the way it is. I mean, there's nothing worse than than having someone leave your business and realising a small change could have made a massive difference. And look, I think we've already talked about, you know, the fact that employees and candidates can be brand ambassadors, and how we treat people has a really big impact on our business. So anything that we can do to be bringing someone along for the ride and keeping them within our business for longer is really important. And, you know, I think early conversations from a HR perspective, if we've got issues, I'd rather get in and know that we've documented those conversations early. And I imagine having those conversations with you as well as the recruiter, that that's really important.
Christine Fedoulis: Absolutely. You know, the conversations continue well beyond the placement. You know, it's really important. And it's an opportunity for employers to fine tune and tweak, you know, certain things or be aware that perhaps maybe their onboarding processes and procedures are not where they should be. And that's probably where I would then be recommending them over to you. You know, if they didn't have, you know, a structured sort of HR, designated HR person. But yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's always, like in anything, there's always room for continuous improvement. It's just I think employers need to be open to it and understand that it's not about trying to offend anyone, but it's about trying to actually maximise it. Because at the end of the day, you want to be able to, for that new employee to have that great experience and retain that person as well. Because that's where the real value is. Yeah, absolutely.
Retention Starts at Recruitment and Onboarding
Karen Arnold: Well, we know how expensive it is to recruit. And it's not just the ad and the time that's spent, but the loss of productivity, the impact for other employees within the business who have to constantly be training or retraining people because of this revolving door, the impact for your customers or your clients when you've got people exiting the business and that loss of knowledge. So I think, you know, yeah, anything that we can do to be retaining those new starters and getting them to where we need to be is really important. I did want to touch before we sort of wrap up on that retention piece. So again, beautiful segue. Thank you, Christine. Love your work. But I did a talk last week on retention and you know, in particular on a concept known as stay interviews. Because I think, you know, retention shouldn't be starting when someone threatens to resign. We should be starting it at that recruitment and onboarding process. And we have just touched on the cost of recruitment and the impacts for businesses very briefly. But if you could maybe pinpoint one or two things that you think make a candidate stay after they've accepted the role.
Karen Arnold: You know, what are you hearing from candidates if maybe they're having a little bit of a bumpy ride at the beginning? What are those things that are encouraging them to stay in that role?
Christine Fedoulis: Look, I think communication and being approachable. So, you know, when you are engaging a new employee, let them understand what your actual process is, so your internal processes. And, you know, obviously, the policies and procedures are important. But more importantly, you know, the direct line manager needs to make themselves approachable. And if they're not, and you're already going to HR in the first week, there's something fundamentally wrong. So, look, in terms of, yeah, I would say the communication, I think, and the care. So, actually listening and trying to actually figure out, like, what's gone wrong? And, you know, is this something? And often it's an easy fix. But the issue is, and I've had placements where the line manager has gone on leave as well, or they're on leave when the new person starts as well. And unless it's really structured, and you've got someone else in the team that really knows how to onboard properly, that's usually where it just falls apart. But, yeah, absolutely. With that communication, just letting them know that, like, we want to make sure that we, you know, setting you up for success. So, that communication, even if it's something little or you think it's insignificant, come and tell us about it.
Karen Arnold: Yeah. It's interesting that, you know, people can be quite dismissive of a new employee coming and having a conversation with you, because I think there has to be a level of bravery for a brand new employee to be starting to raise concerns or issues. So, I find it, you know, fascinating that people would be dismissive of that or not jumping on it straight away.
Christine Fedoulis: It's quite surprising, though. And, you know, I obviously do the post-placement follow-up as well. And it's a bit of a red flag for me if I just get a one-liner, I just get good. You know, how is so-and-so settling in? I just get the good. I'm like, good. But I also want to know, or if I've got feedback from them, and I'm sharing that with the, you know, the line manager or the hiring manager, I want to know that it's not seen as the new employee whinging. It's an opportunity for you to take that on board and see if there's something that you do need to investigate or change, or just keep that in mind as well. Because obviously, you know, a new employee, it's going to take them a few weeks to actually properly settle in. Often, it's within the first week or two, which is really crucial.
Karen Arnold: Yeah. Yeah, look, it's a hard one, isn't it? Because, you know, not everyone takes feedback well. But, you know, if every piece of feedback is used for learning and growth and development, I think we'd be living in a very different world. And you don't have to agree with the feedback. That's the other thing. You don't actually have to agree with it. All you're saying, Christine, from what I hear is just explore it. It might be completely invalid. Or if, you know, if the feedback's like, I'd like a water filter in my office. Okay, look, that's wonderful, noted, but probably not going to happen. My other favourite, I'd like a hot air balloon ride to work because the M1's a train wreck. I mean, again, not going to be able to deliver on that. But I have heard you. I've heard you. Yeah, absolutely.
Christine Fedoulis: Acknowledging. I think it's more acknowledging and just keeping in mind, this is coming up time and time again. If you're doing that high volume recruitment, and you're getting new employees suggesting the same thing, it's really, yeah, I think that that's really key for you to look into that further. I'm not talking about, you know, some of the trivial things or, you know, can you provide us with free coffee every day? Well, if that's not part of the employment contract, it's probably not going to happen, you know. And I've obviously got to use my judgment as to if you can, saying, well, can you go and ask them about this? And I'm like, look, if it wasn't something that is critical to the role of the employment contract, it's just probably, you know, nice to have. So it's using your judgment.
Candidate Requests, Negotiation and Knowing When to Revisit the Brief
Karen Arnold: Yeah. Which actually brings me to what I think is going to be my favourite question of the day. Can you tell me some of the wackiest requests candidates have had? Obviously, free coffee might be one of them. But what would be a couple of things where you've just looked at them and gone, did that just come out of your mouth?
Christine Fedoulis: I actually had a remote role where the person needed to relocate and they wanted to know if it was okay for them to bring their cockatoo on the flight and if the accommodation would accommodate their cockatoo. So that's probably kind of a wacky one.
Karen Arnold: And the answer was?
Christine Fedoulis: Yeah, look, it was actually was okay because obviously, you know, dogs and cats can fly now. Birds are okay too. But it was really critical for this person because they're like, I don't have kids and the cockatoo is kind of like my pup. So that one, look, there's always things like, you know, new employees might start and then they'll be like, oh, well, look, my manager has a car space that he's paid for. So can I have that as well? So, you know, requests sort of like that, like if you're working in like a busy, I wouldn't say it's sort of very wacky, but usually the negotiation, like I'm quite good at really staying close to my candidates and always asking them questions all the time. So it's usually in the negotiation stages, you know, presenting perhaps some of those questions that arise. But I haven't really had any, I'm quite blessed. Yeah, but no, not really, to be honest. Yeah, it's not. No, I mean, sometimes you get a candidate interviewing and then they're like, actually, I've decided that I think that this role really should command like 20 or 30 grand extra. So can you just go and go and ask for this, even though right away in the conversation, this is the budgeted salary. Yeah, this is the salary range. And sometimes you get that and you're like, yeah, look, no, I'm actually going to say no, that I am 99% certain the client's going to say no, I'm not actually going to go to them and ask them that question.
Christine Fedoulis: Yeah, because it's a no, it's going to make me look silly. But also, I'm not sure you've been hearing the conversation we've been having too. So then I'm questioning probably do I continue with this candidate?
Karen Arnold: Okay, and I can imagine that would be really quite frustrating. I mean, I know I've experienced that. Obviously, I own a business and I've recruited in the past. I'm excited to be recruiting with you next time. But I suppose that is a little bit frustrating when, you know, you've put a price point out there, or you've put that the roles are part time, or it's full time, or it's casual or something like that. And you do get three quarters of the way through the process. And, you know, you're then renegotiating things or being asked things that have been, you know, quite explicitly set out right from the beginning.
Christine Fedoulis: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think that's why it ties back in with, you know, having that clarity and, you know, the really well written job description, structured interviews as well, and the details matter. So something does come up in the interview process, it's really key, do we need to actually edit the job description and issue a new job description? Or do we possibly need to go back out to market there? Rather than just trying to put a, you know, square peg into a round hole and hoping for the best and then praying, you know, when you're on board this person that they're going to work out when there's some, you know, it's the fine detail. If that doesn't match, you need to revisit it. Yeah.
Karen Arnold: And look, I think anything that's forced is not going to work. And I have learned that the hard way. You know, that square peg round hole is never going to work. And I completely agree with you, it'd just be better to go back to the beginning, have a look at, you know, does the position description reflect what came through that process or that recruitment process? Is the remuneration matching what you're looking for? Where's that problem stemmed from? And then yeah, going back to market, which can be frustrating. We're often trying to fill a position because there's a gap. But I think, yeah, after 15 years in business, certainly, I think it'd be better to slow the recruitment process down, go back through where it's gone sideways.
Christine Fedoulis: Well, from a recruitment perspective and an employer perspective, the last thing you want is to have a replacement issue, because if you've lost productivity and time, it's disruptive to your team. From a recruitment perspective as well, you know, time is of the essence, then if you've got someone that's not working out, and you need to then recruit again, and there's that real sense of urgency there, behind there. So absolutely, it's better to slow the process down or revisit or start the search again, rather than just trying to push it and making it work when the reality is that you're going to hire the wrong person, or there's something that just needs to be revisited in it.
Karen Arnold: Yeah, you just, I feel like we would be moving the recruitment headache into a workplace headache, because we've then got potential performance issues and everything else, or disruption to co-workers because someone's not doing what they thought they were engaged to do, or, you know, whatever other issues come out of that, I guess, not quite right candidate. Yeah, I think we're just moving the problem at that point. So, yeah.
Final Takeaways: Better Hiring, Stronger Retention
Karen Arnold: All right. Well, look, this has been an absolutely fantastic discussion, and I always enjoy chatting to you. I think you're such a wealth of knowledge and just such a calming influence in that space, I think. And recruitment is a scary and overwhelming process for a lot of us. You know, if we're not doing it day in, day out, we're trying to juggle job ads and position descriptions and trying to, I guess, benchmark salaries and understand why candidates are not responding, or they're now put five emails in my inbox, and we only spoke yesterday. You know, it's a really stressful process for a lot of us. And so I think, I do enjoy our conversations, because you're just so calm and so knowledgeable. It's fantastic. If you could give our listeners one message today, so for all the employers who are listening, what would that one takeaway be?
Christine Fedoulis: Geez, you put me on the spot here.
Karen Arnold: Sorry.
Christine Fedoulis: But one takeaway for employers is that that preparation you do before you start recruiting is really key. So, you know, making sure that you are obviously understanding the HR side, the legislative laws and the legislation, being really clear on the timeframe that you have. And if you are engaging a recruiter, you know, it needs to be a true business partnership. We want to help you. We want to see you succeed. We want to help you get the right person on board. But we can't do that if you're not being transparent with us and providing context and providing that clarity and keeping the communication, you know, flowing and the momentum going in the process.
Karen Arnold: Fantastic. So I think, you know, that's a great tip. You know, slow down, I guess, to speed up. Get that preparation and all that back end stuff sorted. And then go into that process with clarity, whether it is them recruiting on their own or using, you know, a business like Superior Recruitment to do the recruiting, that clarity that will come from doing that preparation piece.
Christine Fedoulis: Absolutely. It makes the process just so much more valuable and efficient. And yeah, absolutely. So as I always say, a little bit of preparation goes a long way.
Karen Arnold: Absolutely. And you're speaking my language. All right. Look, I think, you know, to wrap up, you know, what I've heard today is that better recruitment outcomes don't start with a job ad. It starts with that preparation, that understanding the role, defining it, having clear expectations, making sure your employment arrangements are all locked in. So is it full time, part time, casual? If you're offering a salary, are you able to under your award? Because there are some awards that don't have annualised salary provisions. So making sure you understand the legislation, even identifying what level in the award, if you have an applicable award or an enterprise agreement, what level that role sits at. So you're not accidentally underpaying that position and really focusing on that candidate experience. So making sure that the candidates, regardless of whether they're successful or not, are having a positive experience through that process and being regularly communicated with. For anyone listening today who does want to explore Christine's services or connect with her, you can visit Superior Recruitment's website. So it's www.superiorrecruitment.com.au and you can connect with Christine that way. Christine, thank you so much.
Christine Fedoulis: It's been my absolute pleasure, Karen. I've really enjoyed this conversation. As always, we always have really interesting conversations. And look, I think you're absolutely amazing. Effective Workplace Solutions is a HR consultancy that I often recommend to my clients and the businesses that I work with as well, because you are just so knowledgeable. You really know your stuff and you're also just a pleasure to work with as well. I feel like you make HR a really calm space, exactly like what you said about me in the recruitment side. That's how I feel about you.
Karen Arnold: Thank you. Thank you. That's lovely. Thank you. Well, to all the listeners, thank you for listening to another episode of HR2Go. If your business is based in Australia and you'd like HR or employment law advice, please visit our website, www.ewsolutions.com.au.
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